The Recovered Life Show

Jessica Dueñas (00:00):
Um, and you know, one thing that is kind of crazy in terms of signs, I didn't have awareness of how much drinking was quote unquote, bad drinking. I mean, today I understand that just one drink is like a cigarette, right? It's literally poison. It's ethanol. There's nothing good about alcohol being consumed. Um, but, you know, the c d C has guidance and 15 drinks per men in a week is heavy. Drinking eight drinks per women in a week is heavy drinking, and that's not really common knowledge. So for me, when I was starting in college and I was binge drinking, I know I was drinking way more than just eight drinks. And that was not even drinking every day of the week. That was just partying.

Announcer (00:42):
You are listening to the Recovered Life Show, the show that helps people in recovery live their best recovered lives. And here is your host, Damon Frank,

Damon Frank (00:53):
And welcome back to The Recovered Life Show. I am pleased to be joined today by recovered life coach and sober coach Jessica Deez. How you doing, Jessica?

Jessica Dueñas (01:04):
I'm doing great. How about you almost got it right. You switched.

Damon Frank (01:07):
I almost got it

Jessica Dueñas (01:08):
Right. Dez .

Damon Frank (01:09):
Dez, by the

Jessica Dueñas (01:10):
End of the episode you have it.

Damon Frank (01:12):
. You know what, we were just talking that I was the worst Spanish speaker in the world, uh, you know, in high school, and it hasn't gotten much better. So Jessica, welcome to the show. I am so thrilled to have you on. I was, I was very excited about this episode because we're talk, gonna talk about something really important, and that is alcoholic liver disease and especially alcoholic liver disease in women. And this is something, you know, people talk about alcoholism, they talk about dry January, they talk about all these other things about signs and symptoms that things might not be going well with your drinking, but people don't really dive into this alcoholic liver disease situation that is really running rampant right now. And I'd like for you just to kind of jump in here and tell us your story because you, you suffered from this Yes. Uh, when you were out there, right?

Jessica Dueñas (02:00):
Yep, I definitely did. So, um, if you have been following Muse outlets, you know, we saw it, you know, NPR reported on this two years ago, and c s reported on it. Again, just last, you know, this week. Um, you know, alcoholic liver disease has been seen way more frequently in young folks, like people in their twenties, thirties and forties, when you usually see it appearing in people in their fifties and sixties and above. And that's because we as a generation are doing a whole lot of excessive drinking. Um, so for me, I was someone who at the worst of my alcohol abuse alcoholism, um, I was drinking a fifth a day and I probably drank a fifth a day of alcohol for about a year. But I was drinking, you know, on a much lighter spectrum in the years before that. But all of it was definitely on heavy disordered drinking.

(02:49):
Right? Um, and you know, one thing that is kind of crazy in terms of signs, I didn't have awareness of how much drinking was quote unquote bad drinking. I mean, today I understand that just one drink is like a cigarette, right? It's literally poison. It's ethanol. There's nothing good about alcohol being consumed. Um, but you know, the c d C has guidance and 15 drinks for men in a week is heavy drinking eight drinks per women in a week is heavy drinking. And that's not really common knowledge. So for me, when I was starting in college and I was binge drinking, I know I was drinking way more than just eight drinks. And that was not even drinking every day of the week. That was just partying. But then once, um, I became a young professional, I was a teacher, it switched to happy hours. And you know, for me, again, it was a normalized thing. Nobody was looking down at folks for going to happy hour. And I was doing that several times a week and it was almost like I had a great day in the classroom, let me go drink and celebrate. I had a terrible day at work, let me go drink and, you know, drink the woes away. So alcohol very quickly had become a coping mechanism for me, um, really just to deal with anything that was happening in life. And the thing,

Damon Frank (03:58):
And, and I wanna go back Jessica too real quick. I want to go back because you're talking eight drinks over a week, right? Right. Eight drinks over a week. Now that's a drink, drink in a little bit, a shot a day, right? Like that's a drink a day. That maybe isn't what people are thinking because I gotta just tell you honestly, as somebody who's in recovery, as somebody who did a lot of excessive drink, I was way beyond that 15 limit for, uh, for, for men. Uh, I would not think for women it would be eight drinks. And I would not even think even as somebody in recovery that eight drinks would necessarily be an issue for a week. It could be that little Right. And the damage is severe.

Jessica Dueñas (04:38):
Exactly. And you know, and I think about the years that I worked with other professionals and how many, for how many of them, it was normal to have a couple of glasses of wine a night. Right? And again, if it's just eight is already considered heavy, imagine what, you know, those couple of drinks of wine or whatever mixed drink you're having per day is actually doing to your liver. And that's what I didn't know. So I continued just drinking. And of course, you know, before you know it, your tolerance goes up. So you need more to get that fuel effect. And by the time that I was physically dependent on it, again, I was drinking, I don't even know how much, but at the end of it, I was drinking a fifth of liquor a day, which that's 17 drinks in one day.

Damon Frank (05:24):
Wow. And you, no. And you're somebody who identifies as having a drinking problem got sober. Yeah. Like you had it, you, beyond the medical issue, uh, you were, you, you know, you had this, you had this drinking disorder that was going on behind the scenes. So tell me, did your Dr, did you immediately come out of the gate drinking as much as you did? Or was this something where you built a tolerance up?

Jessica Dueñas (05:48):
Oh yeah. I totally built up to it because, you know, like I've seen people who will ask me, well how much were you drinking when you got sick? And I'll say, you know, I was drinking this obscene amount of liquor. And they're like, oh, well I'm not drinking like that. And I'm like, well honey, I didn't start drinking a fifth of liquor when I started drinking. Right? Like, it all starts with the drink a couple drinks and then it builds up over time. Cuz like you said, that tolerance builds up and you need more to get the feeling that you're seeking the drink for in the first place. So, you know, it's so important for people to understand that, you know, alcohol abuse, alcoholism, whatever term you wanna use that's gonna help you get help, right? Whatever it is, that's all on the spectrum. And we have to be the ones to identify when we're having a problem.

(06:30):
And so if you're starting to, like for me, the signs that I was starting to get sick included. Um, I started to realize that if I didn't drink, I was not only mentally irritable, but I was actually starting to get physically sick. My hands were shaking again, I'm a teacher, so I'm supposed to be writing all the time, writing on the board, doing all sorts of things. And I was realizing that like my penmanship was being affected, um, I was getting nauseous in the middle of the day. I started to lose, I started to lose weight in a way that didn't look good because my belly was definitely a solid belly, but I was like losing pounds on the scale. So, you know, with liver disease you're getting excess fluid in the abdomen. And so I was starting to develop that. I was starting to have issues with my vision. And then the other thing too, I just couldn't really stomach food anymore. So what started to happen was I was barely eating and the only calories that I was consuming towards the end of it all was just alcohol. Like that was Yeah. Fuel.

Damon Frank (07:30):
And that, you know, right there, that is an alcohol issue. Right. And I, you know, I want to go, obviously, you know, I just want to say here, if you're experiencing any of these and you're drinking and you're experiencing these, you definitely want to go to a medical professional. And you ended up at a medical professional, right? Like Yes. Tell us the big crescendo here, because this was pretty dramatic. I mean, you went from teacher by day to alcoholic liver disease.

Jessica Dueñas (07:56):
Yep.

Damon Frank (07:57):
And what was that like? I mean, what was that experience like?

Jessica Dueñas (08:01):
Yeah, so I ended up having a physical and I was avoiding going to the doctor, but, you know, I knew it was time to like go get a checkup. And when the labs came back, um, it was really impersonal. But I just got like a note in like my patient portal that said, alcoholic liver disease, elevated enzymes, stop alcohol and come back in a month. And, you know, what's r a I got rid of that doctor really fast, but, you know, it was mind blowing that if my liver looked like that, did you really think that you could just send me an email and it would be all like fixed in a month? I'd be like, back alcohol free. Like, no. Like that was clearly a sign of a major addiction going on. Um, so when I got that email, I pretty much ignored it because it, it terrified me.

(08:43):
And I did my Google search and I looked up alcoholic liver disease and I was like, oh my gosh, like I am on the track to cirrhosis, right? And cirrhosis, you can't come back from, um, there's levels of alcoholic liver disease that you, you can heal from if you stop drinking, which thankfully I eventually did, but I was just terrified. And, um, I like probably went on another month or two, still drinking just as badly knowing in the back of my mind that I was genuinely poisoning myself. And then I started to, um, have really bad panic attacks to where I couldn't drive and I couldn't drive to work. And that for me was the, okay, Jess, you need to do something because, you know, I lived alone. I was the my own provider, so I needed to work. So I checked myself secretly into a rehab facility.

(09:30):
And yeah, when I went in, they explained a hundred percent that there's no way that I could have stopped drinking safely. That it probab, you know, the risk of seizures or heart issues, um, were incredibly high. Which is why I always recommend for anybody who has been drinking heavily, just get with a doctor and do a consultation with a physician because maybe you can't, maybe you don't need to go into treatment, but you definitely just wanna make sure you're not risking, um, you know, going into heart failure, having a seizure or any other damaging, um, thing that can happen with alcohol withdrawals. So I did that. And, um, yes, it was, I was heavily monitored, um, around the clock for those first few days that I stopped drinking. I was incredibly sick. Um, but yes, I was given prescription medications during that process to assist so that it wasn't dangerous. So I was able to safely detox.

Damon Frank (10:19):
Jessica, I want to, I want to bring this up because I think that this is important. I mean, probably during the time you are struggling with, well, I can't really have alcohol use disorder. I can't really be an alcoholic. I can't really be a problem drinker. I can't really be, you know, like I look at my life, I have it all together. I'm a teacher, I've got, you know, I I'm not homeless, I'm not this, I'm not that. What was going through your head? Well, I mean obviously that's a big wake up call when you get that. But like you said, well that doctor's gotta go quickly. Like did you just start, did your mind, did your mind start making up excuses that it wasn't the alcohol, that it was something else?

Jessica Dueñas (10:55):
It, I knew it deep down. I knew it. I, it was just a, I did an excellent job of ignoring it. And you know what, like I would freak out and start to panic and worry and what would I do? I would drink to not think about this fear that I'm getting incredibly sick, I'm making myself sicker. Um, and yeah, for the longest I had sort of like this cognitive dissonance and I was like, well, in my family, when people struggled with their drinking, they had a very disorderly life that was visibly disordered, right? Like maybe unstable living situations, relationships all over the place, things like that. But yeah, like here I am with a degree, a post graduate degree, a very successful teaching career. Ha I had my own house, you know, like I had all these things going on. So on paper everything looked really good.

(11:43):
So I was like, no, I'm, I am not an alcoholic because how could I be? Look at me, I'm, I'm this really successful professional and educated young woman and I'm young. Like how could I have like this stuff happens to older people? Yeah. Um, but no, like, you don't have to fit in any specific box to b to a, if you identify with the term alcoholic or as someone being on the alcohol use disorder spectrum, however you wanna say it, you don't have to look any kind of way to have a problem with alcohol. You know, alcohol is an incredibly addictive substance and it is totally glorified in everywhere that we go, you know, in the United States and probably everywhere else. So, you know, you can be this really successful person you are and can be this amazing person and still have this terrible addiction. And that's what people have to understand. You don't have to have a moral flaw and to have a problem with alcohol, you can't

Damon Frank (12:36):
Be Yeah, it is, it is an allergy. Like I tell people a lot of times, you know, alcoholism is an allergy, uh, as well it is is a thinking issue. It's a lot of different things rolled up into one. Right. But I think what's so important about your story, Jessica, and um, what, why it has such an impact and why I think that if anybody's listening to this right now that has a loved one that's going through this, or maybe they're drinking more than eight drinks a week, or maybe they're binge drinking, right? That while you decide whether or not you have alcohol use disorder or not in the, in the meantime, you could be killing yourself with this, right? Like you could literally be killing yourself with this. And I think just whether or not where you fall on that spectrum, the idea of stopping in time before you have severe liver damage is the issue. Because where you were already in a really bad position drinking the amount that you did, like it wasn't, it was literally a period of time for you to really probably have total liver failure.

Jessica Dueñas (13:39):
Yeah. Right? I was totally on track to a very early death 100%. And thankfully, you know, I was able to stop. But that's the thing, right? Like we, nobody knows where that line is drawn for each of us. Cuz all of our bodies are so unique, right? So like the way that I drank maybe for someone else would've, you know, led on to full on liver failure much quicker for me, I was on track for that. And the thing is, once you are in that liver failure space, um, that's it, right? Like you have to hope that you can get on the liver transplant list. And getting on the liver transplant list is incredibly hard. I work with someone who, you know, basically it's like she had to do constant, um, blood tests to make sure that she hasn't been drinking. Because if we're gonna give you a dead person's liver, like you better damn well prove that you're sticking to being alcohol free and being sober. So, you know, no one wants to live like that. You don't wanna be constantly policed, um, if you get to that extent, but you know, there is support. You don't have to try to quit drinking by yourself. And that's what I always tell people cuz I used to think that I could do it on my own. And recovery is not the same as like going to school or, you know, building your career. Like this is not about just doing it by yourself. You need somebody

Damon Frank (14:54):
Absolutely right. And I think that's why you're a powerful coach. And when we come back from this quick break, Jessica, I want you to dive into how you rebuilt your life because, you know, um, as this escalated for you and then you got treatment, you came out, you stayed sober, and now you're helping other people do this as well. So when we come back from this quick break, we're gonna dive into how you did that attention, all those seeking recovery. Are you looking for a supportive, welcoming place to share your experiences and find strength in your journey? Look no further than recovery Life's recovery Check-in meetings with several meetings held throughout the week, you can choose the one that's right for you. Moderated by top recovery coaches, these meetings are open to all avenues of addiction recovery, and offer a powerful opportunity for personal growth through connection with others. R SVP now by visiting Recovered life.us and clicking on Find Your Group. Don't miss this chance to be seen and heard. Join us at recovery, check-in and take the next step in your recovery journey. See you there.

Announcer (16:18):
You are listening to the Recovered Life Show.

Damon Frank (16:44):
And we're back. I've been speaking with Jessica, uh, sober coach, talking about her experience with alcohol, liver disease, and her journey really to recovery. You know, Jessica, we are talk, I mean, what you talk about, I know you kind of talked about this a little matter of fact, but that's a huge thing that you went through having to go through medical detox and this whole thing. When you got out of that and you were no longer shaking, no longer going through that detox process, what was your healing journey like? Because I know you now work in recovery mm-hmm. , what was that like for you?

Jessica Dueñas (17:22):
Um, it was definitely really painful and complicated because the thing was, I did the medical detox part, so, you know, I addressed the physical piece of it. Um, but that first time that I went to detox, I, I was being very, um, impacted by the stigma and the shame of what I had gone through. So nobody knew that I went to treatment. You know, I was just gone for a couple days and nobody knew, like nobody could keep, you know, find me. And I was like, well, I'm so sorry I had a crazy rough couple days, et cetera. So I was hiding the fact that I was, um, trying to address my drinking, right? So at the time, um, I was attending aa and, um, so the people in those spaces knew who I was and knew, you know, that I was trying this recovery thing.

(18:08):
But, um, a couple options I still hadn't explored. I didn't really address, um, mental health in terms of potentially using medication to assist me. And I'm saying this, this is my personal experience. I am not a doctor. This is not a medical recommendation for anyone listening. Please consult with your own physician about this. But I'm talking about my journey, right? So, um, I was secretly sober and I, again, I, I mean I had like a sponsor and I was involved somewhat in the 12 step program, but not very heavily. And you know, I was in a relationship with someone else who was in the 12 step program too, but I wasn't working, I wasn't really working on myself and I wasn't addressing any core issues, childhood trauma, anything like that. So honestly, I was just ticking time bomb for a relapse, which is exactly what happened.

(18:54):
Um, when my partner, he passed away because he relapsed on an opiate, which caused an overdose. Um, you know, that broke me completely. And, um, I relapsed. And what happened was eight months of continued hospitalization. So I was kind of going through this in and out of hospital settings, um, at different levels of care un until from April of 2020 until my actual sobriety date of November, 2020. So I, because I didn't, you know, embrace my recovery full on because I didn't embrace the fact that I had to genuinely treat, you know, the root cause of my drinking, um, I set myself up for when life happened. I wasn't ready for it. And I went right back to, you know, old behaviors and such. Um, once I got to November of 2020, and I kind of had put myself back through this complicated, you know, life cycle of being in and out of recovery spaces, um, hospital recovery spaces, um, at that point I did consult with, um, a psychiatrist, and I did get, um, an actual diagnosis for bipolar disorder.

(20:05):
Um, two. So for anyone who listening, bipolar disorder two is different from bipolar one. In that bipolar two, I would say it's more episodes of very heavy depression, um, with some mild manic symptoms. Um, there's no disconnection from reality or anything like that that you might experience in bipolar one. Um, but it's just these really powerful episodes of depression that made sense when I looked at my life, you know, up until that point. So anyway, so I started using medication, um, I started recovering openly and out loud, which allowed me to build community and allowed me to build support. And that's where everything changed. Um, when I, I suddenly had the courage to say, this is what I've been dealing with, and I'm sick and tired of dealing with this, so I'm telling you all my story. So that a, what's that? Yeah, it's like part accountability, um, part just like pray for me, help me connect with me, let's build this community and grow. And that was really the game changer for me. And then I started to really dive into therapy and working in support groups. Um, I eventually grew out of 12 step programs and started working with people in other recovery spaces. And that was really the game changer for me. And so once I finally did not drink alcohol for several months consistently, um, I went back to the doctor blood tests and my liver was perfectly normal.

Damon Frank (21:28):
That's awesome. So, well, you know what I wanna, I want to talk with you about something that you said earlier about how I think a lot of people that come in that I, I think a lot of people don't understand that, uh, when people with alcohol use disorder alcoholics when they relapse, it actually things get worse than it was before. It doesn't reset back. And I think that this is a, this is a huge misunderstanding, not only for people who are alcoholics, but it's also a misunderstanding for the people that love them and are around them. It it, you know, I always say if you came in at a five, you could be a, a sober for a year and get yourself back up at eight, but you go back out, you're at a four, right? Like, you just keep going down as, as far as the impact of it, not only physically, but also in your, in your mental health, uh, where you're at. And it, and sometimes it's even harder to get back. Do you wanna share that a little bit? Because I think that that is something that people don't understand that that, that you're actually, you, you actually, uh, start again kind of even lower than where you came in.

Jessica Dueñas (22:36):
Yeah. You know, the, the relapse, the experience of a relapse is so painful and, you know, and for so many people it is a part of their story. It's a part of mine. So the first thing I wanna say, if you're listening and you have relapsed, like, Hey, I hear you. Um, you, you get back up, okay? And like, you can do this if you're listening, um, and like, I tear up just thinking about that experience because there's nothing more discouraging than being on track and then you're not on track and you know, you're already so hard on yourself emotionally. And I think that that's a part of the fuel, like when you're drinking, because you go back into it in a relapse mindset and you know, like for me, I would drink a fifth of the day. I, it's like my body hadn't drank any of anything in a while.

(23:20):
So you get hit really hard when you consume alcohol and that much of a quantity that fast, um, to the point where, yes, I ended up, um, one time almost in the I C U A level underneath in care. Um, my blood alcohol level was like a 0.4 something, which can typically cause people to go into comas and pass away. I didn't thankfully. Um, but I was very close to that and had to, to stay in the hospital being monitored at incredibly, like close levels because of how much alcohol I had in my system. So, you know, basically my normal back then was the fifth of day, which of course was incredibly intoxicating. But when you stop drinking and then you drink that much, you're literally, it's almost like you're poisoning yourself. And when you think of folks like say Amy Winehouse, who was found dead, um, it was alcohol poisoning, right? So you wanna be in, keep in mind that when you do relapse, you do put yourself at risk of the alcohol poisoning. Um, and again, psychologically you are in such a dark space when you're relapsing that the amount that you're consuming is likely to be even higher because you're rushing for that blackout. Like I, yes, I was, I was rushing to fade to black, you know, that's what I was rushing for, to just fade away. And, you know, I genu like I risked my life a few times in those relapses.

Damon Frank (24:38):
Yeah. Well now, as you know, a as someone who's sober, you work with people and a coach, and we're so great to have, we're so thrilled to have you, uh, on the recovered life platform and network because your story is, you know, a lot of people don't hear the story of people getting sober and changing their life and having an impact. They hear the story of found dead, like we're talking with Amy Wyer because this is a serious thing. And I think, I think more for women and, you know, uh, the, because I think, you know, 15 drinks, people can kind of see, okay, 15 drinks, right? Like eight drinks. It, it, you know, to somebody who's a heavy drinker, eight drinks is not a lot, not including an alcoholic, right? So I'm so glad to have you here. I think one of the things that I, I'd like you to say in closing here, anyone, you know, you work with people who have alcoholic liver disease that are coming back, right? And are trying to get and stay sober. What's your message to them if they've maybe been down this road a couple of times, they've been hospitalized a couple times and they say, you know what, Jessica, I just, this is maybe good for you, but I don't really think I could, I don't think I can do this. I don't think I can detox and then stay sober.

Jessica Dueñas (25:52):
Yeah, it's really easy. You know, my message for folks in those positions is, it is very easy to feel that way because that's the only experience you've shown yourself, right? And like our brains create habits. So that's been your habit. But a big part of recovery is, again, you're using a coach, your support groups, support meetings, like how we have a recovered life. You're using that to recreate new habits. And oftentimes there may be some stumbles as you're recreating a new habit for your brain to adjust to, but it's absolutely possible. The other thing too is when we're dealing now, not only are we dealing with like your addiction to alcohol, but we're dealing with a sick liver. We're also needing, again, you have to make sure that you're consulting with a doctor and also a nutritionist to make sure that you're addressing your body's needs, right?

(26:36):
Because what are some of our bigger triggers for drinking? If you're hungry, you're angry, you're lonely, or you're tired, and if you're physically you're liver's sick, you're probably feeling tired a lot. So you're definitely wanting to make sure that you're addressing it nutritionally. Um, and also working with a doctor for perhaps some, um, prescriptions that can assist you with the transition to being alcohol free. Because you know, obviously for everyone, alcohol is poisonous, right? But for someone whose liver is already damaged, um, literally every drink that you're taking is taking you a step closer to the grave. So how can we put a whole support system in place? Yes. And we can have that conversation to get you set up with like, let's find you a doctor, let's find you a nutritionist. Let's set up a daily plan so that you're not putting that in your body. And I get it, I get it. I thought I could never be free, but here I am. And you know, it's just the testament that we, we can break free from it. We can,

Damon Frank (27:32):
You know, things have changed. Jessica, I, I, you know, uh, I was part of a big 12 step group here in, uh, in, in the Burbank, California area for a long period of time. And there were a lot of people that I knew that had very, very long-term sobriety, like 50 years of sobriety, uh, 40 years of sobriety, right? And they were talking about how back in the day, e even in the fifties and and early sixties, that there was such a stigma around alcoholism and alcohol use disorder that people would literally detox in the bathroom at this recovery club and they'd have to pour carro syrup down their throat. Def a horrid experience, right? About how bad it has been and how different it is now that that, that there is actually a way in which people can transition into a sober and happy life without the risk of death, without the risk of, you know, um, severe damage. So I think the work that you're doing, I just so applaud the work that you're doing and we're so thrilled to have you on Recovered Life. We're gonna put links to how you can find out about Jessica, how you can set up a free call with her to discuss your recovery situation. Because I, I think, you know, in closing, Jessica, you would, you would definitely say that each, each person's recovery is different, right? Absolutely. Each, each person's journey is different.

Jessica Dueñas (28:53):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it requires working with a coach to kind of help that individual find what their next first steps are, right? So absolutely. Um, everyone is different and I, you know, I would wanna work with you to make sure that we get the supports in place so that, you know, you're breaking that habit that's, you know, so deadly.

Damon Frank (29:13):
Absolutely. Jessica, thanks so much for coming on the show. We're gonna put links, so how you can find her, uh, how you can set up that call and some more information on Jessica in all the show notes. So definitely click on this guys and you can also catch her at Recovered Life us. She's got a bio, a bunch of information there so you can find out more about her. Jessica, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

Jessica Dueñas (29:36):
Thanks so much for having me, and I appreciate it.

Damon Frank (29:41):
Keep the conversation going. Join Recovered Life. Recovered Life is a peer support network. With direct access to top recovery coaches, contact community and quality peer support meetings that can be accessed virtually. Whether you're pursuing a 12 step program, not involved in 12 Steps, spiritual agnostic, atheist, we're just trying to figure it out. You're welcome here. Sign up today and access unlimited group meetings for only 1999 a month. And because we know you'll love it, we're offering you your first 30 days for free. Don't wait. Visit Recovered life.us and become a member today.