The Recovered Life Show

Kristina Dennis (00:00):
You will hear a lot. If you are from a 12 step background, like I was other people's opinion is none of your business. And I wish I could do that. Black and white kind of, oh, that's done. I never have to worry, but I haven't found that to be the case. I found that it still needs a lot of work that we need to move through our codependent behavior. So we can have honest relationships that feed us, that we get to show up in a hundred percent.

Announcer (00:27):
You're listening to the recovered life show the show that helps people in recovery live their best recovered lives. And here is your host Damon, Frank,

Damon Frank (00:38):
Welcome back to the recovered life show. I am pleased to be joined today by Kristina Dennis, how you doing Kristina?

Kristina Dennis (00:46):
Very well. Thank you for having

Damon Frank (00:47):
Welcome to 2022.

Kristina Dennis (00:51):
Unbelievable. so great.

Damon Frank (00:53):
I love having you on the show. So thank you for anyone who has not heard Kristina, Dennis on the show before she is a co-dependency and recovery coach, really great at what she does. And I always hit her with heavy, deep questions you do on, on every episode. Right? And you're so great at explaining what's going on with people in their thinking espe, you know, if you're listening to this and you're in recovery the real issue becomes after you get sober, as we know, Kristina is relationships, right? Yes. It's really all about relationships.

Kristina Dennis (01:30):
Very, very true. It's it's for those of us who put down alcohol, that's really the only thing that you can do a hundred percent in recovery is not drink or not take that drug, but everything else, you know, the reasons why we drink is still on the table and nothing triggers us more than a relationship.

Damon Frank (01:50):
Yeah. And that's the topic that I had for you today. It's about other people's opinions, right? And worrying about other people's opinions because you know, so much of recovery is being able to be a good list, a good communicator, to be able to take feedback on what people say to you, right. And be able to process it in a healthy way. Right. Mm-hmm and then determine what changes you need to make on your life, in your life.

Kristina Dennis (02:17):
So true. And we, you will hear a lot if you are from a 12 step background, like I was other people's opinion is none of your business. And I wish I could do that. Black and white kind of, oh, that's done. I never have to worry, but I haven't found that to be the case. I found that it still needs a lot of work that we need to move through our codependent behaviors. So we can have honest relationships that feed us, that we get to show up in a hundred percent.

Damon Frank (02:45):
Yeah. It's so important because I think, you know, 12 steps is a lot where a lot of people in recovery start to learn how to, how to ask for feedback mm-hmm right. And then receive it and process that. There seems to be two types of feedback. I want to talk with you about is unsolicited feedback. Like somebody just coming right up to you and telling you what you should do. all the tips of the world and then solicited feedback. And these two are, are different, right?

Kristina Dennis (03:15):
And very much so. And in codependency would come where we realize that we can't take surveys. When we have something happening in our life, we can't go out and check with every single person that we know, but we can set boundaries for those helpful, friendly people that wanna give us feedback on issues that they're not, they're not experts in. It doesn't matter. You need to always recognize whoever's speaking to you. What position do they hold in your life? Are they somebody of authority? Are they somebody that has done what we're doing right now? Have they gotten through some of the situations? What is it that we can learn from them? It's always important to try to stay curious when you're getting this feedback. Look, I'm the boundaries girl, right? Setting, healthy boundaries is something that I talk about all the time. But sometimes you don't have to actually set a boundary with somebody if they're telling you something ridiculous. I always know that if something is bothering me, that somebody said, there's probably a little bit of truth in what they're saying, or I suspect that's some of the things they're saying might be true because if somebody came up and called me a millionaire, I wouldn't be a penny richer. It's only if I actually kind of think, oh, maybe they're telling the truth. So in, if you can look at feedback, even hurtful feedback with some curiosity, it'll give you some of the information that you need in order to heal parts of yourself.

Damon Frank (04:40):
I love what you're saying about that. There might be a thread of truth in it, right? Mm-hmm because I remember, you know, getting negative feedback the first time in recovery. And it was when I asked someone in a 12 step program advice on what they would do. Mm-Hmm and about changes I should make in my life. And they came back was something very direct and it was a hundred percent true. Mm-hmm it was true. Right. Mm-hmm but it was, it was such a utter to me because I didn't really know how to process it. Right, right, right. I didn't know what to do. And honestly, you know, look, most people that have addiction issues that come into recovery. Aren't great listeners. Anyway, when they first come in, they don't really want to take suggestions and feedback. They just want to try to figure out how they can drink or use drugs or be codependent and not the ramifications. Right? Yes. Yes. You're not interested in. And so that's a learned thing, as you learn through recovery, it's like, no, I'm here for the long haul. I wanna recover. I want to do this deal. Right. Right. How do you, how do you, you know, if you start feeling that you're getting this negative feedback and you start feeling defiant, mm-hmm what, what do you do? What do you recommend to people that they do instead of just going into fight or flight?

Kristina Dennis (06:04):
Right! Well, I think it's important one to remember that this is just their opinion and that you are safe in codependency recovery. We start surrounding ourselves with people that have our interest at their heart. We start investing our time with people that can reflect back to us. We get filled up and feel secure by having these honest, open relationships with safe people. So first you have to decide, is this person safe or not safe before you enter into a conversation? Hopefully, you know, you know them, or if you don't know them, you can quickly say not a safe person, not interested in what they have to say and say, thank you, thank you very much. I'll keep that in mind and not actually have a confrontation. I feel like that's really important for people to understand. They don't have to go out and write other people's opinions. They don't have to defend cells against somebody who might as well be telling 'em they have pink hair and it's on fire. So determine how important is this person before you respond and give them any energy you don't have to.

Damon Frank (07:09):
I love that about giving energy and this, this leads me to the other question with unsolicited feedback and everybody's received this and we did an episode last month about toxic people. Yes. And it was great because we really kind of dove into how toxic people in your life can give you this incredibly negative feedback. And through that discussion, I realized, you know, Hey, sometimes that's not even feedback. That's just an attack. Right? Right. Sometimes it's not feedback at all. It's just an attack. Right.

Kristina Dennis (07:41):
I was taught something very early on in my recovery. And I think it's incredibly powerful when somebody attacks, they say something it's not for your betterment. It's not for them. They just say something to kind of push you down. One of my, two of my favorite words are, wow, so that per and will stop. And then the other one is ouch. If you say that to somebody who is attacked to you, it generally stops them in their track. And you don't have to explain why you have an ouch. You don't have to explain why they need to look at it. A different in a different manner. You have to stand up for yourself and say, ouch, that hurt. See how they handle that. Some people might be shocked and realize, oh wow. I went too far. This person has a boundary. This person is not going to let me just abuse them verbally. I love that word. And you don't have to explain so ouch, and you can even use it in past, you know, the event has happened. You can, if you decide that you wanna continue having a relationship with this person and to grow together, you can even call them up and tell them, Hey, when you said that I was really taken back. I didn't know what to say, but ouch. It hurt.

Damon Frank (08:55):
Yeah. I, I love that. Argue with that. Yeah. I love the ouch. Right? Because I think so many times we might be hurt. Somebody gives us feedback and a lot of the times the feedback that might hurt us, the people really care and love us. Mm-Hmm and they really want to see us succeed. And maybe they see something in us. The we don't see in ourselves. Right, right,

Kristina Dennis (09:16):
Right. Oh, for sure. For me in early recovery, people saw a lot of things in me that I had no idea that they were there. You know, they would let me know you're manipulating that hurt, but it actually was such a gift for me because what it made me do is go back and look at my behavior patterns, go back and figure out where was I manipulating so that I could survive as a codependent and a trauma survivor. I had all kinds of manipulation, manipulative behaviors to try to get somebody to do what I wanted them to do so that I could keep myself safe. Well, those are terrible foundations to have relationships on because you're always trying to manipulate somebody else's behavior. And so once I started realizing I'm safe, I'm okay. These are the people I go to for the feedback that helps me. I can say my opinion, I can ask for my needs to be met. And that can be the other person's job to figure out whether they want to meet those needs. Or do we need, who seek other people for this type of relationship it's important to have the information. Yeah.

Damon Frank (10:23):
Yes, it is. The information is actually golden. And I, you know, we were in a clubhouse room together that was fun. And, and for anyone who's listening here that has not joined us on clubhouse, we're on clubhouse almost every, every day of the week. So definitely look up recovered life there. And we have these really deep conversations with people we sure do. And you know, and, and one of the things that came up was about how to handle this feedback and codependency and really kind of this you know, people talking that had codependency, the feel that maybe cross the boundaries, they're the ones now giving the feedback, but they're really trying to manipulate people, right? Mm-Hmm, , it's not about feedback at all. Mm-Hmm, , it's a pure, solid manipulation of trying to get people to do what you want them to do,

Kristina Dennis (11:11):
Right? So that life can be, as you believe it should be. But generally we we're in that position. We are really don't know what the heck is going on in life. We haven't gotten the worlds. We don't know what it's like to have honest relationships with people that will show up for us. We believe we still have to behave a certain way in order for us to be okay. And then you're never really known, right? If you're putting on a show, if you're acting on your codependent behaviors, if you're giving, giving, giving, right. And you never have needs, that's not an equal relationship. And it's the most isolating and loneliness, you know, lonely feeling that I've ever had because nobody really knew who I was. So I really encourage people to take a minute before you respond recognize that you're safe. You're an adult, you're safe.

Kristina Dennis (11:59):
You're learning these new behaviors recognize that you can think about it. In fact, that's even a response. You can give somebody, wow. You've given me a lot to think about it. I really wanna take some time and we can pick up this conversation later, be before you just respond. We, you know, they say it in the big book of alcoholics anonymous, restraint of pen and tongue. You're not declaring that person is right. You're not saying, you know that it's okay to treat you like that. You're giving yourself time to think about it, discuss it with a safe person and then respond so you can build safer, healthier relationships with people.

Damon Frank (12:36):
I, I love, I love that advice. It's so great. And right on, you know, I know that both of us are Byron Katie fans. Yes. And one of the great things I learned from listening to Byron Katie was the phrase, is it true? Mm-Hmm and you know, that's how I have dealt with feedback, you know, through my recovery. And I've when, when I was able to get to a position where I was able to kind of stop and not have this emotional right reaction, mm-hmm right at the front, I would write it down. And then I would ask myself is, is what this person is saying about me or the feedback that they're telling me is this true? Mm-Hmm many times I didn't have the ability to really discern that myself. Right. I felt well, maybe sometimes it's true. But a lot of the times it's not, it was confusing.

Damon Frank (13:24):
So I took it a step further and I would go around to people that I trusted that would tell me the truth, which is so important to have that community. Right. Absolutely. And I would say, listen, I won't get upset. I just want to know somebody said this about me. Do you find it to be true? Mm-Hmm and there were some things that were true. And there were other things that was like, you know that came back, I'd asked five people and all five said, you know what? I really don't see you like that. Mm-Hmm and these people are very close to me. So it was, it was, it was through that and the community and having that, I trusted that I could Wade through what feedback I wanted to integrate into my life.

Kristina Dennis (14:01):
So good. And you can even take that one step further, because if you do get emotionally charged, if you do have a response that's physical or emotion taking the time to understand where that might have come from, you know, if it's somebody you barely know and they say something about your integrity and they don't have any clue who you are, obviously their opinion doesn't matter very much, but that doesn't mean that we're not triggered. And so I love taking these opportunities with people, you know, who do come to me for that discernment and walking through it to see what in your path, what belief system needs to be changed. Right? Because if this person told you, you know, you it's it's daylight and it happens to be evening, you would know the problem was with them. So we have to figure it out. We have to see where that trauma's been stored and we need to rebuild a new belief system on top of it, and we need to replace it so that it doesn't matter as much about what people think of you. And you're not walking around just raw for anybody to bump into you.

Damon Frank (15:05):
So great. And you know, really what I, the takeaway that I'm getting from this episode is that feed feedback is a positive thing. Yes. Even if it's negative feedback and it's not E E even if the person is kind of attacking you, at least you now know their communication style, right.

Kristina Dennis (15:19):
And you have information about them. And I would much rather know that upfront re rejection is God's protection. And I really, really believe that if they don't care for me, I wanna know upfront. I don't wanna build a false relationship. I wanna know upfront that it's not going to work for us. And one thing I learned was that not everybody's gonna like me. And that's a good thing. You know, at first it used to be how I wanted to keep alive, how I wanted. I felt like I had to make sure everybody liked me fond response to trauma so that I would be safe. Now I know because I am safe with the relationships that I have, that that's really okay. They don't want chocolate cake today. They want asparagus. It's perfectly fine. Go find some relationships where you can have your asparagus. I'm all right. Being chocolate cake,

Damon Frank (16:11):
Kristina, Dennis, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing your wisdom with us. Thanks so much.

Kristina Dennis (16:16):
All right.

Announcer (16:18):
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