The Recovered Life Show

Meredith Wickliffe: We grew up in dysfunction, you were programmed at a very, very early age, you know, do not ask for help. That is like the ultimate sin. You know, it wasn't safe for me to ask for
help. And a lot of times, there was no supervising parent there for me to ask help from. So I was automatically left by myself too thin, you know, to fend for myself. So I've learned how to do that,

and I got really good at it. A lot of people that grew up in dysfunctional families are extremely self reliant. And as humans is healthy human beings, self reliance is not a bad thing. However, it can
get out of balance.

Announcer: You're listening to the recovered live show, the show that helps people in recovery live their best recovered lives. And here's your host, Damon Frank.

Damon Frank: And welcome back to the recovered live show. I am thrilled to be joined today by Meredith Wickliffe. Meredith is a recovered life coach, and she deals specifically with dysfunctional
family dynamics, and codependency. How're you doing, Meredith? I am great, Damon, thank you. I'm happy to be here. I am so glad that you're on the show I've been wanting to get you on, you have a very

popular group meeting on recovered life all about peeling back that dysfunctional family dynamic. And I want to do a show to talk with you just about that about uncovering, and you know, the process
of healing the roots of dysfunctional family dynamics. And I know, you know, you've been very outspoken about your past, and about what happened with you and your family dynamics and how it got you to

a place that you didn't want to be. And I was thinking that we just start off the podcast by just talking about your story about what happened. And you know how you got into this?

Meredith Wickliffe: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack with dysfunction. But I guess for me and my story, my story began during childhood, of course, where a lot of people's stories do begin, I was raised
in a dysfunctional home where there was addiction and alcoholism present, there was some mental health problems that were present. And you know, growing up in that is a child, it's very normal, you

don't realize, you know, that's all you know. So you don't really realize that it's dysfunctional as you're living. For me, and my story, I didn't learn about it until about four decades later, when,
you know, growing up in that, and learning all those effective ways to cope and being abused and neglected, how that played out on me emotionally as a child. And how I carried a lot of that emotional

baggage with me didn't realize that I was, but I carried it with me. And it showed up in my relationships. It showed up in my professional work with perfectionism, with workaholism, it showed up in my
marriage, it showed up in my family dynamics as an adult, it showed up just about everywhere. And you know, I call it my parents were my pickers. So, you know, um, I guess the biggest thing for me was

learning what was normal, and what wasn't learning what worked for me and what didn't. And in my journey,

that has been the toughest thing, because no one taught me no one taught me how to emotionally regulate you know, if you grow up in a dysfunctional family or dysfunctional home,

you, you basically are taught, don't trust don't feel.

So you you stay hidden, you wear a mask, and you become what other people need you to be. So you never really get to know who you truly are at yourself at your core, your authentic self, your inner
child gets very stunted. So I love that I love that and you know, real quick I want to jump in here with with this I think a lot of people that might be listening to this that are in recovery from

drugs and alcohol, maybe they you know, are sober or they're thinking about getting sober. And I think that there is a big

there's a big fallacy in the in the whole thing with dysfunctional families and addiction. I think a lot of people believe it's they look around, they go, Well, I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not a drug
addict. So obviously dysfunctional families. It didn't affect me. I had a dysfunctional family. But it didn't affect me, but that's not the case. Right? It's not just it doesn't just impact people in

the areas of physical production, addiction to drugs and alcohol. That is absolutely correct. And I find that more and more and more as I dive into this work and do this work,

the symptoms you know, alcoholism and chemical dependency, I believe are in the

are symptoms of a deeper rooted issue. And most of the time, the deeper rooted issue is codependency and being raised in some form of dysfunctional being having been traumatized as a child, somewhere,
being raised with a parent or caregiver who had mental health problems,

the the behaviors and so I've never personally had a chemical dependency problem. But I can tell you firsthand, and being raised in and completely surrounded by people with chemical dependency
problems and addictions, I think just like them, my thought patterns are exactly the same. I mean, they, you know, obsession, people pleasing. I mean, I could go, there's such a plethora of baggage,

and of

symptoms that come out with codependency people just don't realize it. And the other thing that I've noticed, in my experience, and being in this, you know, being in recovery for 14 years, is that
I've met a lot of codependence that do not suffer with alcohol or drug chemical dependency problems. They don't have any, but if they have other ones, but I have never met an alcoholic or a chemically

dependent person that did not suffer from some form of codependency. And that's the thing that is the deeper that is the most deeply rooted issue.

Damon Frank: In most of the recovery that I've come across to people just don't know. Yeah, and I think that I think bear to, to a lot of times, you know, some of the signs that I have seen, you know,
and everybody is different, obviously, but if you have a lot of siblings that have addiction issues, and you don't, right, like and they're you identify that there's some dysfunction, or you're

collecting a lot of dysfunctional people in your life, that also could be a sign that, you know, growing up in a dysfunctional family dynamic has hurt you, right? Because those are outward signs. And
I think I even call codependency and addiction, because we have an addiction to the outcome of what people are going to do for us. Right. So it's the exact same thing. How do you how do people look at

their life? What are some of their signs that people might look around? And they know that hey, their childhood wasn't perfect, no one's childhood is perfect, right? We're gonna say this up front. And
a lot of people are doing the best that we can they can, raising children. And now, obviously, Meredith, times of change, we're talking about this now, we weren't really talking about this as much 20

to 30 years ago, 40 years ago, but what are some of the signs that people would see that like, wow, you know, what, growing up in a dysfunctional family has really, it's hurting my life.

Meredith Wickliffe: Yeah, there are some one of the biggest ones in my experience has been the development of perfectionism. And having yourself holding yourself to such a high regard, high standard,
you could never make perfectionism is an illusion. It's never attainable.

You know, naturally abuse or neglect. Some people don't know that they've been abused or neglected, there are all forms of abuse. It's not just physical abuse. There's mental and emotional abuse. So
there's one,

a lot of unpredictability in the home and fear, where there's no stability, there's no emotional regulation. There's a lot of abandonment, either physical, mental or emotional abandonment, where
another sign is growing up, and having your caregivers love be conditional, where you have to perform in order to feel love. One of the biggest ones is lack of boundaries. If you don't know what

boundaries are, you know, people confuse boundaries for walls. And if you've done any research or done any, you know, diving into any type of boundaries, boundaries really keep you safe. And they are
apt they're not. They're definitely not a luxury, they're a necessity, if you want to live happy and healthy. Poor communication and lack of intimacy are also one of one of the biggest ones for me is

a lack of trust, where you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, you're always, you know, planning, worst case scenario, that hyper vigilance of, you know, oh, if if they do X, I'm going to do
this. So you have 10 scenarios played out. And then the 11 scenario is the one you did.

And that's the one that happens. So there's a lot of different signs, there is a lot and those are just a few.

Damon Frank: Yeah, you know, Meredith, it's interesting, because I remember,

you know, I remember getting sober and then going through the process of getting sober and, you know, working and rebuilding my life. And I was fortunate to get sober early in my life.

But I would be able to take jobs like assistance to people who were very crazy and all over the place, right, and I'd be able to really be able to kind of take that abuse. And I remember kind of
seeing the difference between me and other people being able to take it but I'd also get a role in it. It's like the I think the problem is when you're growing up in these situations, and you know,

and it could just be a family member, right that in part a kid, the rest of the situation could be great. But, but what happens is, is that people that grow up in dysfunctional families, especially if
there's drugs and alcohol in it, in addition, or an underlying mental illness, they feel comfortable in chaos. We can, you know, we can operate well there, because we're used to it where other people

can't. But eventually, I find that starts to erode your life, right? Like, you can't, you can't live that level of unstability. forever without it having direct effect on you as a person and the life
choices that you have.

Meredith Wickliffe: That is absolutely correct. And it doesn't just affect your body. It affects all parts of your body, it affects your mental health, your emotional health, of course. But I think a
big piece that that I know, I missed personally, was the toll it took on my physical health. You know, the, from the symptoms that we talked about, you know, perfectionism, and workaholism, he owes

nothing for me to work 120 Hour Workweek, you know, I could work 20 hours a day and function on very little food and very little sleep and think that was healthy. And I did that for decades. But it
took a toll on my body years later. So you're 100%, right, no person, no human being can, can sustain that level of function, it will, it will catch up. I know it did for me, and it does for most

people, it's just a matter of when it's just a matter of how also how connected you are, you know, growing up in dysfunction, you become what I call in what I've heard call, you live in a
disassociated state. So you're really disconnected from your from yourself and who you are, you're disconnected from your, your soul identity, and you live your life, externally, you live it for other

people, you live it to, please and to, you know, because you never feel good enough, you always feel like you have to perform, and you have to do and you get your worth and your purpose about doing.
And we do that, or I do, I did that in my external world. So I never fully could connect on the inside. And then I wondered why I felt like crap. It's like this is not work it because it shows up in

every area of your life. It shows up in your relationships, it shows up in your professional work, it shows up with colleagues, it shows up, you know, in your body. I mean, if you cannot, there's a
saying that I like to remind myself of is you cannot run your demons. They will they will catch you.

Damon Frank: So that's absolutely right. Yeah, that's absolutely right you

Meredith Wickliffe: when you can deal with them. You know, Meredith,

Damon Frank: I think the thing is, it's that shocking about this, for people that look at is that they might not uncover, that actually the unhappiness in their life. The route is a dysfunctional
family dynamic until much later, like, you know, I, I'm somebody who was raised, one of my parents was an alcoholic, I was raised in that dysfunction, and there was some craziness there. And other

members of my family that weren't like that at all, it was very healthy, right. But that one thing, even after becoming an alcoholic myself, which I said, I would never do, right, going through all of
that crap, to be able to get sober, and to rebuild my life and to do it, I didn't really stumble upon that this was really an issue as big until my 30s, right? Like, it's still like a decade later, or

so. And I'm still unraveling some of the patterns that I have in my life that are really triggered by that past, dysfunctional family dynamic. And I think the overworking thing, you just totally
nailed that both of us are entrepreneurs and are out doing it. And it's like being able to over constantly over deliver and always have the net have the answer. For me, like when I started to question

that, why am I over delivering all the time? Why do I always have to have the answer to that? I don't have to have the answer. I don't know. Like, you know, that was a huge uncovering. And it's kind
of it was shocking to me that it took that long, even being in recovery around great people, right? Like you to really uncover that. But it's not. I guess what I'm gonna ask you is it's not rare,

right? For people in their 40s 50s 60s, and even 70s, to start to wake up and say, Oh, my gosh, maybe some of the ways that I live my life and the decision I make come from the root of that
dysfunctional family.

Meredith Wickliffe: Oh, it's not uncommon at all. I mean, you're looking at one, you know, I'm 56 years old, and I didn't find recovery until I was in my 40s. And even the first, what, maybe five or
10 years of that I spent an Al Anon which is a 12 step program for people recovering from the effects of someone else's addiction. It wasn't until about the last For four plus years, I guess, that I

was able to find adult children of alcoholics, which really focuses on the family dynamic. And that is where my that is that was the root of my core issue. And I can tie everything back to not blaming
my childhood, of course, because that's not what ACA is about. As the ACO a 12 step program is about finding your truth and fight, you have to go backwards, so you can move forward. And because I was

stuck, and I know I was stuck in trauma, and when you are traumatized, your emotional growth gets stunted at the age of which that trauma occurred. So I my trauma occurred, it's seven between six and
seven years old. So here I am walking around in my 30s and 40s, as an adult that I'm showing up in my relationships, like seven year old so you can imagine, that didn't go over very well, because I

was traumatized. I wasn't taught how to, you know, process trauma, I wasn't taught how to process and regulate emotions, I wasn't even allowed to have emotions growing up unless it was anger. So you
know, I had to do a lot of anger management things. That's how anger was one of the things that I used to cope and be able to get done what I needed to get done. And it really turned me inside out,

you know, it turned me my codependency turned me into a person that I authentically am not supposed to be. And the one thing I really want to focus on being a recovered life coach there is there's,
there's no better time to be in recovery or or, you know, have an addiction issue. There are so much help out there. There's so much more help than what there used to be, however, absolutely. For

codependence, there is not a lot. I mean, there's a lot of help in general. But like, for instance, I'll get I'll describe what I'm talking about. If you have a chemical dependency issue, you can walk
into a treatment center and check yourself in for 3060 90 180. However long you feel you need, and you can get the help that you need. There are not treatment programs like that, that I'm aware of, at

least they're not in my area for codependency. There are meetings, there are 12 step meetings, there's therapy, there's behavior modifications, there's things like recovered life, but there's no real
treatment because it's not. It's not recognized in the psychological community or in the DSM five, which is you know, what that is it, you know, it's the medical diagnostic tool. It's not listed as an

actual disease. And I have I have great issue with that because codependency to me, is just as much of an addiction issue as a chemical dependent one.

Unknown: Absolutely. You know what in it is a killer. It really drains your life and I you know, and you're not out living your your best life if you if you are in woven in this right now. So,
Meredith, what I want to do is when we come back from this quick break, everybody who's listening to this, and they're like, yep, Meredith Check, check, check. This is me. This is me. This is me.

We're going to talk about after this quick break, how you can really start to uncover this and start the healing process wrong with Meredith Wickliffe. We're going to be back after this quick break.
Are you ready to fully participate in your life and achieve true mastery? Join Kristin fuller every Tuesday at 3pm for the Life Mastery hour, a peer support room designed to help you succeed in life

and recovery. During this one hour peer support group, Kristen will discuss a variety of topics to help you navigate the challenges of early sobriety and build the skills you need to live a sober and
fulfilling life. From overcoming trauma and dealing with obstacles to finding purpose and building resilience. Kristin has the knowledge and experience to guide you on your journey to a more

fulfilling recovered life. Don't be held back any longer join the Life Mastery hour and start your path to a better tomorrow. RSVP now by going to recovered live.us and click on Find my group. And
we'll see you Tuesday at 3pm.

You're listening to the recovered live show the show that helps people in recovery live their best recovered lives.

Damon Frank: And we're back and I'm talking with Meredith Wickliffe. We're talking about uncovering and healing the roots of dysfunction dysfunctional family dynamics. That's a mouthful. But really I
think I should have just said Your life's a mess. What the heck's going on? Meredith is here, she's going to drop some value bombs with us right now, about if this is you, if you were listening the

first segment of this and you're like, Yep, this is me. Yep, I'm over delivering all the time. I'm not happy. I don't have great relationship, you're going down the list. And everything you're
identifying with with Meredith said, where do you start? Meredith, you're a great recovered life coach, you deal with this? Specifically? Where does somebody start? If they've identified, this might

be me?

Meredith Wickliffe: Well, I can speak from my own experience. And for me, I had to recognize the first thing I had to do is I had to recognize how much pain I was in. And it wasn't until I could
really get in touch with myself as an individual and get honest with myself is to is this that how I wanted to feel? So I had to really ask myself the hard question, you know. So from that point on,

once I realized, yes, I am in pain in pain was my motivator to get help, you have to start unpacking and addressing some very uncomfortable things about yourself and about your life. The other thing
is, I think it's, I don't believe I know, I could not recover alone. So asking for help reaching out, doing research, whatever research you can, going out into community googling like a clubhouse,

there's so many resources out there. But being able to build, start building a community and a tribe, that of people that are similar to you, we are all different people, we come from all walks of
life, but we all are very, very similar. The next thing is, is, you know, once you can identify that you need some help. You know, that's the first step awareness is the first step. After that, you

have to start doing what you know, the health that you seek, you have to start doing those things and putting them into action. So for me, I had to really take an inventory of myself and where I was,
I had to clean my slate. So that was very, very difficult. And I could not do that alone, I asked for help from a therapist, I got into a 12 step meeting. The only there's many ways to recover, I

believe, and it's a very individual process. But for me, I have found that 12 step recovery has been my lifeline.

The biggest part, I think, too now is you once you start to get into it, it's very isolating, it can be very lonely, you feel like you're the only one in the world that's going through this. My best
suggestion is to get your tribe, find your people, because the people that are currently in your life are probably very similar to you. And they're, you're going to start seeing as you start to

recover, if they're not recovering, you're going to start seeing some differences. So you need to surround yourself with people who have tools that are on a similar path. It is extremely helpful.
Absolutely. You know what, Meredith? You know, I want to go back to that a little bit. You were talking about this connection. Now, one of the things that I've noticed about codependency is if you're

raised in a dysfunctional family, a lot of times what happens is the idea of asking for help is the worst sin that you could do like you don't, you have to figure it out, right. So a lot of times
lately, if you're a child, in this situation, it's like you learned very on don't ask for help figure it out yourself. Because asking for help is gonna put me in a vulnerable situation. And I don't

want to be the person who doesn't have the answer. Right. So I think, you know, alcoholics, one of the biggest things when they come into recovery is they have to realize that it's an illusion that
they can, that it's really alcohol, that is part of the problem, right? We don't think that alcohol is part of the problem. We think it's everything else. And I think with codependency I think it's

the thing, it's like, I don't need other people, I'm going to figure it out by myself as that version of it for CodePen. I don't need to connect with people. I don't need it. Right. Like it's so hard.
But I think you would say, taking that first step is really the key to healing, right? You're not going to be able to do it alone and by yourself. That's absolutely right. And that is that is what I

believe has been one of the biggest successes for my recovery has been those 12 step meetings, those in person meetings, those zoom meetings, that community and that tribe, you're absolutely right. We
if you grew up in dysfunction, you are programmed at a very, very early age, you know, do not ask for help. That is like the ultimate sin. You know, it wasn't safe for me to ask for help. And a lot of

times there was no supervising parent there for me to ask help from so I was automatically left by myself to thin you know, to fend for myself. So I learned how to do that. And I got really good at
it. A lot of people that grew up in dysfunctional families are extremely self reliant. And as humans is healthy human beings self

Damon Frank: alliances is not a bad thing. However, it can get out of balance. And we can, like I lived in a bubble. And I craved connection because I'm a human being. And when I didn't get that
connection, then I'd get upset or I get angry or you know, whatever emotion would come up, and then I would further spiral down. You know, I call that a codependent spiral. You know, the opposite of

addiction is connection. Addiction loves the darkness. And the connection brings light to that darkness. And that's how I, you know, that's how I play it in my mind, is having that community to remind
you and be that light for you, when you cannot be the light for yourself, they can be that light for you until you absolutely, it's essential, it's really essential to being able to live your best

recovered life, and to be able to heal from this, which is really what it's about, you know, I have to ask this question, because I know anyone who's listening to this right now, that's thinking about
this journey, one of their biggest fear is, Does this mean I have to cut out everybody in my life? Does this mean that I have to can't talk to my mom, or my dad, or my brother or my sister? You know,

my best friends growing up? Like what does this mean for me? Does this mean that it's over for all those people? And I have to start a new? What What's your answer that because I know that's a huge
fear. In codependency that's the last thing they want to do. Oh, absolutely. Um, my answer to that is no, you do not have to do anything that you you know, you become a recovery gives you the benefit

of choice, it gives you tools to be able to still work within a dysfunctional family, if you choose to stay within a dysfunctional family, it only takes one person within that family to change the
generational cycle of dysfunction. So if you want to have your family, your or your family of origin in your life, you absolutely can do that. Their recovery by no means says that you have to just

throw the baby out with the bathwater, and kick everybody to the curb and start over.

Meredith Wickliffe: You know, that is a choice that you get to make once you start to reconnect with yourself and figure out what's going to work best for you. You know, in my situation, you know,
there are some family members that I did have to let go up, I had to detach with love, and I love them, but they're not a part of my life. And then there's other ones that are I also have, you know,

non recovering people in my life. You know, and I love them. They're not recovering, they don't live the same lifestyle, but they're still a part of my life. And I still have relationships with them.
But I know who they are. I know who I am. And I have good boundaries. I know how to practice good boundaries. You know, I have a coach too, that helps me I practice a program of recovery. And I know

for me, as long as I do that I can have anybody in my life that I choose to.

Damon Frank: Absolutely, absolutely. You know what, Meredith? In conclusion here, I want to I really love for you to talk to anybody who's listening to this, that is very fearful about doing this.
They know something's wrong, right? But maybe deep down inside, they're like, you know, what I've maybe tried to have differently, I've tried to set boundaries, I've tried to break out of that role

that my family and friends put me in. I just can't seem to get there. Maybe it's just not possible for me. What's your message to somebody who's listening to this, that that's just fearful and thinks
it's just not going to work? For me this healing process? I think that was the number one thing that held me back was fear. You know, before I got into recovery, I was married to an alcoholic. And a

seed of recovery that I needed was planted 17 years prior to me getting there. So if someone is out there and listening to this, use this as a seed, you show up when you get there, you get it when
you're ready for it. You know, when when the student is ready, the teacher appears. I know if

Meredith Wickliffe: I had to be able to walk through my fear, to be able to live a different life, I no longer chose or wanted to choose to live live in suffering, and in pain. I wanted to live a
happy, joyful life. And that doesn't mean that, that there's no fear that's there. It just means that I can I can wrap it up differently. I can feel the fear but I can do it anyway, knowing that I'm

going to get a different result. And if you are tired of living in dysfunction, you're tired of living in pain, tired of suffering, tired of you know, just being taken advantage of whatever the case
may be.

You know, I have a very small little love Rs, a slogan that I use and I use it all the time and it's do it different. If we always do what we've always done, we will always get what we've always
gotten. So take a chance you are the best investment you will ever make in yourself. Oh, I agree you are the best investment so if you're listening this, get some help. A good start is a meeting that

we've got on recovered life that that you host that is amazing. It's called Healing Within dysfunctional families. We're to talk about that it's 11am ever I'm sorry 5pm

Damon Frank: On every Wednesday, Pacific Time, it is an amazing meeting. What What can people expect if they if they go to that meeting,

they can expect love and support a listening ear, they can expect to find like topics with open discussion, say safe environment and safe place where other people are going through the same things or
maybe have been on the same journey, a

lot of good suggestions and solutions we don't we do not give people advice. We don't force we basically share our experience strength and hope and let other people know what's worked for us. And that
we give other people hope that they can do it, too. And that meeting is every Wednesday at 8pm. Eastern time. It's a wonderful meeting. And it is so grateful to be a part of recovered live. I can't

thank you enough, Damon. Well, we're thrilled to have you because I think you are addressing something and there's been a big popularity for this meeting. So definitely, if this if this is something
that you want to do, we're going to put a link to the show notes about how to get a hold of Meredith, how to attend that meeting, Healing Within dysfunctional families. I think the reason, Meredith,

that so many people are attracted to that meeting, and working with you and finding out is that they're starting to uncover that awareness is starting to come up, that there is something more there
that there's no coincidence that they married an alcoholic. There's no coincidence that they have a subset, right. Like this baby isn't a coincidence that maybe there's something there. And they're

starting to unravel that and uncover that. And this is a really great, safe place to do it. So definitely check her out Wednesdays 8pm Eastern 5pm Pacific Healing Within dysfunctional families.
Meredith, thanks so much for coming on the recovered live show today and sharing your wisdom with everybody. Thank you so much, Damon, it's been a pleasure to be here. Talk to you soon. Thank you.

Announcer: Keep the conversation going join recovered life. Recovered life is a peer support network. With direct access to top recovery coaches, content, community and quality peer support meetings,
it can be accessed virtually. Whether you're pursuing a 12 step program, not involved in 12 steps, spiritual agnostic, atheists are just trying to figure it out. You're welcome here. Sign up today and

access unlimited group meetings for only 1999 a month. And because we know you'll love it. We're offering you your first 30 days for free. Don't wait. Visit recovered life.us and become a member
today.